प्रजा अधीन राजा समूह | Right to Recall Group

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1
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:09 pm 
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Starting this thread to compile FAQs on Right to recall draft.
Please post any Frequently asked questions on Right to recall draft along with their answers if you know.
The link of the Right to recall LokPal draft is -
English-
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid= ... NmU1&hl=en

Hindi-
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid= ... MDJj&hl=en

Following is the description of one of the most important Govt Order we propose-demand and promise to fix the corruption of India.
1. Any citizen of India can pay a deposit same as MP election to the District Collector and register himself as a candidate for LOKPAL CHAIRPERSON
2. Any citizen of India can walk to Talati’s office, pay Rs 3 fee , approve at most five persons for LOKPAL CHAIRPERSON position. The Talati will give him a receipt with his voter-id# and the persons he approved.
3. A citizen can cancel his approvals any day as well.
4. The Talati will put the preferences of the citizen on Lokpal’s website with citizen’s voter-ID number and his preferences.
5. If a candidate gets approval of over 37 crore citizen voters, then existing LOKPAL CHAIRPERSON may resign and appoint the person with highest approval as LOKPAL CHAIRPERSON.

CITIZENS VOICE Transparent Complaint Procedure Gazette notification
1)if a woman voter or dalit
voter or senior citizen voter or poor voter or farmer voter or ANY citizen- voter in his district submits a Right to Information application or complaint against corruption or any affidavit to the Collector and requests to be put on the website of Prime Minister, the Collector or his designated clerk will issue a serial number and put that affidavit etc on the website of the Prime Minister for a fee of Rs 20 per page.
2)if a woman voter or a dalit voter or a , senior citizen voter or a poor voter or a farmer voter or ANY citizen-voter , comes with voter ID, and specifies Yes-No on an RTI application, complaint or any affidavit submitted in clause-1, the Patwari will enter his Officer Yes-No on the PM‟s website with his voter-ID and give a printed receipt for Rs 3 fee. The Patwari will also allow citizen to change his Yes-No for Rs 3 fee. The fee will be Re 1 for BPL card holder.
3)This CITIZENS`VOICE/JANTA KI AWAZ GN is not a referendum procedure. The Yes-No count will not be a binding on PM, CMs, officers, If over 37 crore women voters, dalit voters, senior citizen voters, poor voters, farmer voters or ANY 37 crore citizen-voters register Yes on a given affidavit, then the PM may or need not take necessary action on the RTI application affidavit ; or the PM may or need not resign. PM‟s decision will be final.
I summarize the CITIZENS`VOICE Transparent complaint procedure gazette-notification law as
o If a citizen wants, then by visiting Collector‟s office, he can put Complaint/RTI application/Proposal on PM‟s website.
o If a citizen supports an application, complain etc, then by visiting Talati‟s (Patwari etc) office,
citizen can register his support to an Complaint/RTI application/Proposal on PM`s website for a Rs 3/- fee.


Last edited by kmoksha on Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:27 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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2
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:42 pm 
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1)Do all citizens in India have internet to use this law?

This is the most common “wrong question” I get. I call it wrong question, because the law does NOT at all require the citizen to have an internet connection begin with. Whether the citizen has internet or not, he must visit the Collector’s office in person to submit his complaint or RTI application. And whether he has internet or not, he must visit Talati’s (Lekhpal, Patwari, VO) office in person to register YES on a complaint or affidavit. So internet is not at all required to use this law, and even if a person has internet, it would make no difference. So the law can be used by all citizens of India above 18 years of age. If he has internet connection, he can read the affidavits with ease. But then so can someone without internet --- he only needs to ask someone who has net.
2)How does Right to recall law reduce corruption in police?
Why is corruption in US policemen low (except in drugs related cases)?
The one and only one reason why corruption in US police is low is because citizens in US have procedure to
expel District Police Commissioner of their district. So Police Commissioner in US takes very less bribes and also
ensures that his staff doesn’t take much bribes. If Police Commissioner in US comes to know that his junior staff is taking bribes, he will immediately run a sting operation, gather evidences and gets them expelled. Because he fears that if corruption in junior staff increases, the citizens may expel him. The corruption in US police in drugs related cases is because most citizens in US do not have much aversion against drugs. But since in India, citizens have NO procedure to expel Police Chief, the Chief not only collects bribes, he asks his juniors to collect maximal bribes. A typical Police Commissioner keeps half of what he collects and passes the half to MLAs, Home Minister and CM. How come you, the reader, did not know that US citizens can expel their Police Chiefs? Because the EIIs (EII = Eminent Intellectuals of India) do not want citizens of India to know that “US citizens have procedure to expel District Police Chiefs” because
EIIs don’t want citizens of India to demand such procedures.


Last edited by kmoksha on Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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3
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:06 pm 
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3)Later additions to RTR to make it secure and reduce bogus voting
Later on, following features will get added to this proposal. These features are to reduce “bogus voting” and also to counter the argument that “there will be bogus voting and so this procedure must never ever exist”
1. The citizen’s finger print will be in computer so that computer can verify the voter using finger-print identification.
2. A camera will be connected to Patwari’s computer so that it will scan the picture of the citizen and finger print and store it as well as put it on the receipt of his Yes-No. This way a person is registering too many Yes-No, it would become possible to track and arrest him.
3. The citizen will be given a passbook that will have list of all Yes-No he has registered. So if anyone has registered Yes-No by impostering him, he will come to know about it.
4. Every citizen will get a statement every month showing list of Yes-No he registered in past six months. So if any imposter has registered Yes/No, he will come to know about it.
5. If the citizen wishes, he can register his mobile phone number and he will get SMS when he registers Yes-No. So if anyone has registered Yes-No by impostering him, he will come to know about it immediately.
6. If the citizen wishes, he can register his email address and he will get email when he registers Yes-/No. So if anyone has registered Yes-No by impostering him, he will come to know about it immediately.
This will make Yes-No registration more secure than banking. With these safe-guards, bogus voter will be caught by 5th or 6th try and this will reduce the number of bogus filers. Now “1% of Yes-No may be bogus and so all 72 cr voters must not be allowed to register Yes-No” is a
frivolous argument.
4)Why do eminent intellectuals oppose this RTR GN I demand?

This GN I demand does not require allocation of hundreds of crores of rupees, does not require allocation of 1000s of staff, does not require 1000s of buildings or roads. And as per our Constitution as interpreted by the Citizens, CM does not need approval of MLAs to enact this
change. Yet all parties’ MPs and all eminent intellectuals are hostile to this proposed Govt Notification. All parties’ leaders have hated this proposal and their CMs and PM have sworn not to sign this GN we demand. All eminent intellectuals of India have opposed this proposal and
have asked CMs and PM not sign this RTR GN. Why? The process of change happens when crores of citizens want change and becomes unstoppable when each of these crores of citizens know that crores of citizens are with him. Let me repeat this sentence, as the sentence covers
theme of all major changes that citizens brought in past 3000 years.
The process of change happens when crores of citizens have agreed, and crores of citizens know that crores of citizens have agreed.
The “crores of citizens knowing what crores of citizens want” is the “Zero of Political Arithmetic”. The intellectuals and mediamen always try to convince each of the common that he is all alone and rest of the crores of commons are unaware and sleeping. RTR not only enables citizen to file YES/NO on a proposed change, but if crores of citizens have agreed for a change, then all crores of citizens come to know that crores of citizens do want this change. It does not allow media-owners to create an image that “people don’t care”. RTR reduces the power of media-owners in twisting images on priorities of the crores of citizens.


Last edited by kmoksha on Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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4
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:25 pm 
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5)Wont the rich be able to buy out citizens?

If poor sell their vote, why is voting even in poor areas never more than 70%? And why do wealthy candidates lose more often than win? My point is : if a anyone is given money, he will take it. But everyone knows that voting is confidential, and so they vote the party/person they hate least. The money paid doesnt matter inside the booth. And in the procedures wehave proposed , one can change his approval anyday. So if someone has paid Rs 100 for approval, he will have to pay Rs 100 everyweek and thus he will run out of money.

So money will not play imp role in proposed Right to Recall procedures

Say elitemen decide to buy the citizens and install their own person as LokPal. They will have to bribe 37 crore citizens. say they pay Rs 200 per citizen. Then they have to pay Rs. 7400 crore to get their `YES`
Since the citizen can cancell his approvals anyday, then the elitemen will have to pay again Rs.7400 crore or more to get the citizens approval.
And each time the elitemen will have to cough Rs.7400 crore.
Within months, elitemen would run out their all their generations
of savings and assets. All wealth of elitemen in India add to no more than Rs 100,00,000 crores.
All the money of elitemen would evaporate within 6-12 months. And the elitemen are rational --- they would not waste their money like this
and attain nothing. IOW, RTR will ensure that bribe given to citizen is burning away money and results into no gains. So making claims that RTR is something that elitemen can buy away only shows that person is hopelessly unaware of real life calculation. RTR is immune to money power
as it gives option to citizens to file same proposal again and again and again and thus collect money again and again and again. This is simply unviable.
Buying voters in election is possible as election comes once in 5 years. But in RTR law-draft I proposed, voters can change approvals anyday, and so buying will fail and no one has criminals to force lakhs and crores of citizens in a district and criminals too cost huge money.
In 1974, when just a few 1000 students came on streets demanding resignation of the them Chief Minister Chimanbhai Patel in Gujarat, Chimanbhai Patel tried all tactics he could but finally costs and logistics went up the roof. Even mightiest of mightiest Indira Gandhi gave up when number of students prisoners in prison crossed 300,000 and the threat of prisons breaking became real. eg In Nandigram, Buddhadev Bhattachrya used all his criminals, but could not force them to sell the land. So this is just reality --- no leader has might and strength to stand agianst even 2% of population.

6)Is this law unconstitutional?

This law is not unconstitional as it is not binding on the lokpal chairperson to resign if there are crores of persons supporting another lokpal chairperson although no one can stand such public pressure.
So this law does not go against any law of the constitution.
If you think RTR is unconstitutional, which clause is of RTR violates which article of Constitution in your opinion ?


Last edited by kmoksha on Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:29 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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5
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:37 pm 
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7)Will the LokPal Chairperson get replaced every week? How many people will pay Rs 3 for giving his/her vote and how many will be ready to even listen and vote without any fee.
NO, the LokPal chairperson will not get replaced every week.
In most companies, employers have power to fire employees and that does not mean that employers fire employees every day. Worse, most employers look for stable employees and resort to expulsion only when they make some terrible deliberate damage. The citizens will use this
procedure not to expel a LokPal Chairperson they dislike and not even to expel a LokPal Chairperson who had made mistakes.
They will use it only when they think that LokPal Chairperson is outrightly corrupt and anti-citizen and they will be ready to pay Rs. 3. It takes intense hatred to think of expulsion and such hatred will come only from blatant back-stabbing, not some minor errors.Also, the fee for poor is Re 1.
US has procedure of expulsion for Governors in about 20 states. Those states must have seen about 20*100/4 = about 500 Governors in past 100 years. How many faced recall polls?
Only three. And how many Governors actually got expelled? Only one. So the mechanism has not created any instability. But has acted as a latent threat on all Governors of US which is one important reasons why they have been less corrupt than top post holders of India.
The Right to Recall clauses give enormous power to citizens over CMs and
PM. Till now, we have bureaucrats/officials with mass base but no mass pressure. The procedure to replace creates a mass pressure on the LokPal. As of now most bureaucrats know that they cant be expelled for 5 years and take the citizens for ride. But with this procedure, he may or may not get replaced, but the threat of replacement will ensure that he behaves better than bureaucrats of
today.
I am proposing R2R over 60 positions and list will increase. It will NOT create any chaos, as when R2R comes, officer behave well and so R2R is seldom invoked and hence minimal chaos. eg only 2 governors have been recalled so far in US out of over 200 in past 200 years. And only 5 police chiefs have been expelled in past 100 years from over 1000-2000. Because R2R ensured that they do not go bershek. R2R gives best of two worlds --- well disciplined babudom and minimal chaos. In fact, R2R with no elections would be less chaotic than election with no R2R.
-------
The citizens will approve some alternate candidate ONLY if and when

1. Existing PM is utterly hopeless (eg MMS, Deshmukh, Mayawati,
2. Alternative is far far superior (no existing neta for that matter)

And most people will approve someone who has proved himself as district/state level. E.g. Majority of UPites know that Mayawati is corrupt and should be expelled ASAP. If they had replacement procedures, most UPites would approve some IAS, IPS or Mayor who has proved himself at District level
-----
Say one DEO is corrupt. Commons will expel him and put another one. The story doesnt end there --- the commons will also get him imprisoned using JurySys and confiscate his ill gotten wealth. eg when JurySys came in Boston in mid 1700s some dozen of the two dozen Magistrates and many municipal officials landed in prison.

So when JurySys comes, corruption by itself will reduce.

---

And now as I have proposed, one person can become DEO of many districts (say limit is 20 or 50 or 5 or whatever). So the DEO has motive to expand across districts. So after 2-3 expulsions in 10-15 districts, one person may become DEO, who is interested in doing a good job, and expanding rather than bribery. This is NOT an imaginary situation --- in today's real life too, one finds that 1 out 10 IAS/IPS is honest (the % in HCjs and SCjs is 0% though). So one such officer will become DEO, and once he does a good job the citizens from many districts will make him DEO as well.

To negate your fear, commons in Calif have procedure to expel Governor (CM). They dont go around expelling CM every month. And in most districts, commons in US have formal or informal procedures to expel police chiefs, Mayors, public prosecutors etc. Expulsions do happen, but instability you mention is unheard.

Q-Your system can work only if two people are there. If there is gonna b be 2,500 applicants for DEO post I obviously doubt if a single man would get more than 55% votes based on your system. This would only lead to a mayhem of uncertainty there by rendering the election useless.

There be 1000 applicants. So? A citizen will approve one of WELL KNOWN ones. All 1000 wont be well known. For the position of DEO, the well known person whom a common will be approve will be most likely some teacher who has run 10s of tuition classes for less charge and helped many commons' students learn useful subjects like Maths, English, law etc.

There may be 100 applicant or 10000 such applicant. The existing DEO will continue TILL one gets approval of 55% of all commons i.e. 5.5 lakhs voters (in our example, district has 10,00,000 voters).

There is NO instability. And there is NO uncertainty either



8)Is RTR adopted from the west?


NO
Right to Recall is also mentioned in Atharvaved. Atharvaved says that Sabha , assembly of all citizens, can expel the King. Maharshi Dayanand Saraswatijee in chap-6 of Satyarth Prakash explain the Raj-Dharm, and in the first 5 sholkas, Maharshi says – Raja must be “Prajaa-aadhin” i.e. dependent on commons. And in the next shloka, Maharshi says that if Raja is not Prajaa-aadhin, then such a Raja would enter into the nation, rob the citizens and just as a carnivorous animal eats away the other animals, such Raja who is not Prajaa-aadhin would eat
and destroy the nation. And Maharshi Saraswatijee has taken both shlokas from Atharvved. And please note – word Raja here includes all Raj-Karmachari i.e. employees of Govt from Supreme Court Chief judge to Patwari. All employees of Govt must be Prajaa-aadhin, or they will rob the citizens.
In India, the intellectuals with 4 digit IQ have insisted opposite of what Atharvaved and Satyarth Prakash say. The intellectuals with 4 digit IQ say that Raja and Raj-Karmachari i.e. Govt
employees should not be Prajaa-aadheen but should be only be BandharaNa-aadheen i.e. dependent on Constitution only. This whole concept of BandharaNa-Aadheen Raja i.e.BandharaNa-aadheen Ministers, officers, policemen and judges is bogus as BandharaNa’s interpretation can be twisted by judges, Ministers etc like a piece of wax.


Last edited by kmoksha on Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:37 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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6
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:41 pm 
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9)First RTR should be implemented in a organisation like Bharat Swabhiman and the pro-cons should be observed and only after this we can know true nature of RTR.
पहले RTR को अपने संगठन जैसे की भारत स्वाभिमान में लागू करके देखना चाहिए उसके बाद ही इसका सच्चा स्वरुप सामने आ पायेगा |


I am not keen on applying RTR on ANY non-Govt body. Why? Every citizen has equal right over Govt. But every member does not have equal right over organization. eg1. I cant have same right over BST as Swami Ramdevji any senior member. eg2 an employee of Reliance cant have same rights as Mukesh Ambani. We must have equality inside Govt. But not necessarily inside organization. I dont oppose RTR inside BST, but I dont demand as I dont have "right to demand RTR inside BST", as my role in creating BST is negligible compared seniors.

10)You are forgetting that US people get a lot better health care, education, other infrastructure. They have access to internet, telephones better than we have access to food and shelter.You cant get a bunch of US people bribed with tea and snacks to vote against someone because they are well aware and well developed unlike people here.

US has been having RTR since 1760s.When these procedures were introduced in US, the literacy rate was lower than what is in our country and poverty level was high. And US has lot of education and lower poverty etc because corruption has been low in US since 1760s, and corruption has been low mainly because of RTR (and JurySys, a similar concept). And bribery is common in US where RTR doesnt exist. eg US doesnt have RTR over Senators, and so most Senators in US are corrupt.


Last edited by kmoksha on Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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7
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:13 pm 
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11)RTR shall work with this class of population which is educated but most of the population lives in villages. To register a complaint only, one will have to move scores of kms to the offices of Patwari/Tehsildar/DM Office from a resident of a village. These offices are the headquarters of touts and musclemen. A poor fellow in remote areas, first has to waste his energy, time, money and then leave the chances of being 'soft target' by unscrupulous persons. Why would it not encourage further radetape borders, beaurocracy, eliticism?

Later additions in RTR will enable persons to file complaints from
1. Any Collector Office
2. Any Tahsildaar office
3. Any Magistrate's Courts
4. Any Sub-Registrar Office

There is no red-tapeism as officers have no discretionary power to say NO.
Also, say if one cant register complaint in his district, he can always ask a friend of him to register complaint in any of the 700 districts of India.
RTR requires that person who is putting complaint must be fingerprinted and photographed. So in any office which has a gazetted officer, or officer authorized to verify persons can accept RTR applications.

12)a)what is the reason that in RTR CLAUSES ,its written ''may or may not resign PM,etc''..why not we say ''should''??..It should be forced on politicians .Suppose majority are opposing a PM etc but what if he doesnot resign because its written in clause that he ''may or may not''..So using this he may escape and will say i will not resign.what can citizen do at this time?what is the problem if its written ''should resign''??

b) The PM cannot pass this law just by notification without any legislation.
If it doesnot require any legislation then why not will any forthcoming PM/CM remove or ammend it by a new notification or signature?
How will you introduce a draft as PM when 90% of MPs are corrupt?
Will they not oppose any draft of public interest and remove the PM?


a)-One in one lakh PM may not resign but he has to face wrath of crores of people and will not be able to escape. For example, the king of England some 800-900 years before dared to oppose chosen representatives of the people. He was executed and powers of King were snatched and since then, no King has yet dared to oppose the parliament. So, no PM or authority can dare to oppose even 1 % of the population.
Years & Years ago, we had clause saying, if majority agrees, PM must resign.

BUT the INTELECTUALS came and said it is violating so called constitution. But infact, it was not.But if we ask which clause of the constitution is broken, they do not point that out even. So, to avoid confrontation with them and the people they have influenced via media and other means, we have made the count `non-binding` and left the decision to resign on the authorities themselves.

So we decided to change it to "MAY" to avoid confrontation with so called `constitutional experts` and their followers and come to the main point. Once this law-draft/information will reaches towards crores of people, people will make it "MUST"

Please note, the procedures unite the citizens by giving the citizens verified , unsuppressable,un-paid information which at present is not possible.(the information via the media is unverifiable, and paid) This verified , unsuppressable information is the reason why these procedures will be able to exert political pressure when the people are in lakhs or crores and the authority will be forced to resign.

b)The PM and 2-8 top leaders using anti-defection law can change any law within hours, and NO MP would oppose. eg just before Ma-2009 election, PM and top leaders forced MPs to pass about 12 legislations in one day !! And PM (Cabinet) has powers to declare emergency and set aside every law and whole of Constitution. It happened once and can happen again. At the end of the day, support to a law-draft comes from -- do people find it useful? . If people find a law immensely useful, then PM will realize that cost of canceling that law-draft will be open invitation to violent actions from citizens. Which is one reason why I want mass-movement to enact RTR. If a law comes via agitation from citizens, it will become more difficult for any PM to cancel it.

Some links of executive notification by Cabinet-

1) http://ssa.nic.in/national-mission/gove ... y-19-2005/

2) http://www.maharashtra.gov.in/english/w ... tte569.pdf

RTR is a Govt Notification. Govt Notification can be signed by PM
(Cabinet) without approval of MPs. Later, MPs may remove that GN and
may also remove PM.

Which is why, I am calling for mass movement to force PM to sign RTR- GN. I do not want to depend on elections and election outcomes to get RTR signed


Last edited by kmoksha on Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:30 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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8
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:54 pm 
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13)For registering complaint we need separate department. It cannot be done through collector or from his clerk or even by patwari who are already overloaded with work and whose job description is different.

Once PM (Cabinet) signs RTR, these activies will become part of job description of DM and Patwari. The complaint registration is not by collector himself but by his clerk. All depts at District level directly or indirectly come under DM. If DM is overloaded, he can always ask for so called "Additional DM" or "Assistant DM". And eventually, the work will be done by some Executive Magistrate or Clerk, and he can hire more Clerks if he needs. Now scanning and uploading one page takes 5 minutes. So if there is no rush, one clerk is sufficient. And say rush is high. Then in one hour, clerk can scan and upload 12 pages; and in one day, he can upload some 100 pages. Then revenue collected per day is Rs 2000. That is more than enough to pay salary and cover all costs. And for clause-2, if Patwari is overloaded, DM can hire a clerk in Patwari's office for this job. Rs 3 fee will cover all costs including salary of clerk.

14)Common man cannot make the judgement of whom to remove and who to keep, only those who have knowledge of law can decide.

Common man is defined as a person who does not have political connections and is usually poor or from middle class which includes 95% or more of Indians. Every common man knows which neta is corrupt and not doing his work properly.Only, he does not have the right/power to give his decision. Do you think the common man has so low IQ that they cannot know who is corrupt?


Last edited by kmoksha on Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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9
PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:05 am 
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15)40-50% people do not come out to votes. Then, how will this system work?

In 2004, some 60% people voted. And in 2009, voting % was round about the same. And people dont vote much because they see all winnable candidates alike - equally good or equally bad.

And in recall, threat of recall alone is sufficient to reduce corruption.

16)bureaucrats ki performance evaluate kaun karega

jab 80 crs+ people live on 20rs/day how v expect them to

do this performance evaluation job.
What procedure & standards do you propose to judge the performance of nodal officers, bureaucrats etc.?


Common people know whether their police commissioner , district education officer, district supply officer etc are corrupt or not. They will go by common sense. eg if they are getting 9.5 liters of kerosene instead of 10 liters, they will probably tolerate. But if the goes below 9 liters, District supply Officer will get expelled. In other words, citizens based on day today experience will very well decide how well their officers are doing.

In the procedure code proposed to replace District Education Officer etc, each citizen uses his own standard, and based on discretion of majority recall is decided. The recall procedure proposed costs Rs 0 on tax payers. It causes no instability in administration. The fear of recall will improve performance and reduce corruption.


Last edited by kmoksha on Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:32 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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10
PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:10 am 
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17)Is this a plebiscite/referendum?

This is not a referendum since in referendum, once the vote or approval is cast, the person cannot change it. Also , here a person can give approvals to at most five persons.
This eliminates the possibiity of buying out the voters.

18)How do we get RTR?

RTR law draft can be passed trivially using CITIZENS VOICE. But without CITIZENS VOICE, it will take you perhaps ages and ages to get RTR passed. In other words, time taken to get CITIZENS VOICE passed = T, then Time taken to pass RTR via CITIZENS VOICE is (T + 3 months) . While time taken to pass RTR without Citizens Voice is 10 * T. That is because RTR draft is 6 pages long, and it will be take weeks for one activist to communicate from one activist to another. Whereas CITIZENS VOICE is something one activist can communicate to another activist in one day.


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