FAQs on Miscellaneous Topics

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You can discuss here law-drafts proposed by Right to Recall Group like Right to Recall, Jury System, MRCM etc.

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FAQs on Miscellaneous Topics

Post by kmoksha » Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:49 pm

1)Does corruption reduce with increasing salaries of judges and officials?

In small cases, judges avoid taking bribes because there is risk of getting caught and not much money to be made. And in large case, they almost always take bribes. The solution is JurySys, Right to Recall judges, CITIZENS VOICE, Imprisonment by Majority Approval, Fines by Majority Approval.
there was never a reason for Ministers, IAS, IPS, judges to take bribes. And even if salaries go 10 times, they will keep taking bribes unless we citizens have procedures to expel, imprison, execute, fine them. Money is not a replacement of punishment.
In US, in 1950s, salaries of Govt officials did not increase at inflation rate. So officers didnt resort to bribes --- they started quitting. Because the Recall, JurySys ensured that if they take bribes, they would be land in prison. And as they started quitting, citizens increased the salaries and also offered option to re-join. IOW, when corruption is low, salaries etc automatically increase.


Even the lowest level in Govt is far better off compared to 80% of most commons. And if poverty was a reason why a neta-babu-judge-policemen takes bribes, then he would have stopped after making initial few lakhs, but we see that the bribe collection never decreases it only increases.

There are many Govt dept where procedures are so right that Govt employee gets no opportunity to collect bribes. eg consider a bank clerk. He has to pass the cheque in 1-2 days or return it. He has no discretion. So he does not take bribes and lives with lesser money compared to clerks in revenue dept who literally make Rs 100,000 to Rs 10,00,000 in bribes. Now both clerks come from similar background, and yet the bank clerk learns to be content with situation and accepts a mediocre living. Whereas the revenue dept clerk who has opportunity and no fear of punishment runs amok.

And yes, power is so much concentrated at top in that everyone desperately wants himself and his relatives to reach top spots in judocracy, netadom, babudom etc.

3)People get the government they deserve?
Questioner: Once so happened, I booked some items in the luggage van of railways. ..

You are giving examples where stakes are in peanuts. Give examples where stakes are high.

Say you are running a factory. And pollution control guy comes and asks for bribes or threatens to shut down the factory. What you gonna do, what you gonna do?

If you dont pay bribe, he will shut down his factory. Your orders would go for a toss. The wages and interest costs will keep adding without revenue. The clients will walk away and may never come back again if you fail to keep delivery commitments.

So will you dare to refuse to pay bribe?


IOW, please confine to situations where stakes are high. Any 2 bit guy can whose stakes no more than peanuts can yell "see, I sacrificed peanuts, but did not bend principles". Big deal !!!
In one way, you can/should see these criminals as satellites of IPS/judges. IPS/judges want to collect bribes from businesses, but they cant as collecting bribes from 100s of business would expose them. So they sponsor criminals, offer them protection and ask them to collect haftas. You think that criminals took away your money. But 90% of what these criminals make goes top IPS, MLAs, Ministers, CM and judges.
And those who haven't paid bribes, are no saints. Many of them shamelessly support laws that create situations in administration where-in a businessmen etc is forced to pay bribes.

eg Consider the law that "judge would give verdict and not the Jury". Many of those who take pride in not paying bribes shamelessly support this bad law. Situation? The judge tells the aasil "you better hire my relative/friend as lawyer, or I will harass you to death". What choice does aasil have?

Those who support bad laws should be seen at par with those who are paying and taking bribes.

Do people get the judges they deserve?

Do people get the IAS/IPS they deserve?
I would focus on following statement of yours "they are as corrupt as we probably are".

This statement is false. While we commons may be "potentially" as corruptible as neta, IAS, IPS, judges --- in reality most of us commons are not even 0.01% corrupt as any one of them. Some 80% Indians make less than Rs 20 per day. And of remaining 20%, some 15% make less than Rs 10000 per month. Its only top 5% who makes money that would fit "minimum" of IPS, IAS, judge or Minister.

So 80% Indians are non-corrupt. And 15% are only slightly corrupt. It is only 5% who give/take huge bribes.

Questioner-the 5% you speak of are; The businessmen, the politicians, the babus;

=> The ones who frame policies
=> The ones who run this country
=> The ones who create jobs/wealth
=> The ones who are the growth engines of India's 9% GDP.

A big part of wealth still comes from minerals. And crores of labor also work to create this 9% growth.

Questioner-If it werent for those 5%, India would still be begging for alms to foreign countries. Take for eg. reliance, had they not fuelled their growth with corruption, would it even have come into existence?

Due to bribery, we have LESSER industry. West has far less corruption, which is the reason why they have more industry. And Japan has far less corruption, which is why they have more industry. Corruption retards progress as it results into cornering and reduction of opportunities.

4)Bribe is an engine oil that fuels the need of a speeding economy.

Boss, please do gather data from across the countries before building hypothesis. The economies which produce complex engineering goods, like Sweden, Norway, Finland, UK, US, Germany, Japan etc are the ones which have low corruption. So corruption, retards industry, does not fuel it.

Questioner-we are still a developing country. and so we are DEVELOPING ways to stop corruption.

Back in 1800s and early 1900s, when West and Japan were developing the corruption in police, courts and large number of areas (almost entire govt except foreign affairs and some weapons contracts) corruption was negligible.

And while we say India is developing, please do note that our growth is heavily dependent on imported technology. We are NOT manufacturing real complex stuff. This is the result of corruption. Corruption retards real manufacturing.

Questioner-When we are developed, we will have developed stronger anti-corruption laws.

If corruption goes on, chances are high that we will fall apart completely and become so weak that some country like US will just take over.


Consider years 1500-1757. Corruption in India was rampant and that in UK was lesser. Result? Industries increased in UK, it technology grew and later weapons improved. And by 1757, UK had conquered part of India and by 1857, it had conquered over half the India.


Questioner-As it is, it is being increasingly difficult for corruption these days.

The places where there is discretionary powers, corruption is HIGHER than it was in 1991. eg in courts, IAS and IPS. The only places where corruption went down is railway tix, some low level GoI transaction etc.

5) Why is caste conversion rising ?

The reality is is : a large number of Hindu UCs want Dalits to stay illiterate and poor. Who else will clean their floors, wash their cloths, clean their utensils, clean their gutters and bathe their kids? So they hate to see missionaries giving cash and English education to dalits and tribals. Hence the violence.


And folks, Dalits and Tribals have their own mind. The poorest of the poorest person I have met till date is well aware of society, and is not hapless and brainless as many postors here try to project. I have met 100s of Dalit converts, who have read Gita and Bible both, and say that they decided to convert AFTER reading both. And this is despite the fact that they would lose CBR benefits after conversion.


Conversion is rising, and answer can be obtained by asking a different question "why didn't SC/ST convert till now?" Well, answer is CBR (Caste Based Reservation). CBR was a powerful tool that held Dalit/Tribal middle class, upper middle class and upper class in Hindu fold. But as privatization increases, CBR is becoming lame. So few Dalits and Tribal middle class men find any reason to stay Hindu anymore.

And every upper class man who converts takes 10 middle class men with and 1000 poor with him. And every middle class man who converts takes 100 poors with him. For that matter, most missionaries in India are from dalit middle class or their fathers were dalit middle class, and are not imported.


The biggest factor that is assisting them is -- decision of Indian upper middle class (mostly Hindu upper castes) to keep Dalits and Tribals poor and illiterate by denying them land rents over GoI owned plots/mines and denying them English education. This is what makes Dalits and Tribals go towards missionaries, who are willing to give them some cash (or benefits in kind, such as medicine) and English education as well.

Many Hindutvavadies think that they can win the battle by these goons and by electing corrupt neta like Modi.

Well, the goons' strength lies in corrupt judges, corrupt IPS and corrupt MLAs. In absence of corrupt judges, corrupt IPS and corrupt neta, goon will not even kick a cat, forget beating missionaries.

Perhaps this Hindutvavadies have not realized that these corrupt judges, corrupt neta and corrupt IPS would gladly help same missionaries when missionaries offer than twice the money, coupled with political pressures that will come from MNCs. As Hindutvavadies must be aware the top brass of Congress, CPM, BJP, IAS, IPS, CBI, Supreme Court etc are now on MNC payroll. And Hindutvavavdies should also grasp the fact that MNCs have assisted Vatican since 1980 in many many ways all over the world (e.g. in South Korea, a Christian is more likely to get promotion in MNC than a Buddhist). And MNCs in India will be more than happy to use their contacts in BJP, Congress, CPM, IAS, IPS, CBI and Supreme Court to assist Vatican and their missionaries.

So it is matter of time before this corrupt judges, corrupt IPS, corrupt neta et al join the missionaries. And when that happens, half the VHP goons will also join the missionaries and rest half will be prison if not dead.


And then some Hindutvavadies hope that corrupt neta like Modi can save them. Well, Advani (now Haaji Advani) stooped low to the extent of worshiping Jinnah who had ordered massacre of lakhs of Hindus and expulsion of crores of Hindus. His foster son, Modi, will overtake him when Vatican tighten screws on him via MNCs.


It is pity that all that Hindutvavadies could find to carry their agenda is bunch of goons and corrupt neta like Modi, and cant find anyone better.
The Upper Caste elitemen of India are openly hostile in providing good education to commons, and their hostility towards English education is immense. Though almost all UC elitemen send their kids to English medium schools or at least local language schools which teach English from grade-1, they insist that us commons' kids MUST not learn English till std-7. So English of us commons' kids will be weak for ever. The crooked UC elitemen have this design so that UC elitekids get ahead and us commons kids simply work as their servants. RSS and VHP schools DO NOT teach English to commons' kids for this reason only.

The affinity of English education in us commons is immense. So there comes missionaries to exploit this demand-supply gap. He says "become Christian and I will give quality English education to your kids". Now Dalits and Tribals are anyway fed up with UC elitemen and the atrocities inflicted by UC IPS, IAS, judges, elitemen etc. Too that, add the prospect of English education. So they happily convert.


The UC elitemen hate dalits getting English education more than missionaries. If Dalits and Tribals get English education, they may also defect to US, and then become much stronger in India after they send dollars earned abroad. This will drastically reduce the opportunities of their kids in future. Thats why they hate missionaries.
Aside : recently Modi, who is an OBC tried to make English compulsory for all kids in Gujarat starting std-1. Most BD, VHP and BJP workers in Gujarat, who are now OBCs, supported him. Guess who opposed him most? Not Congress. Not CPM (which has only a few leaders in Gujarat anyway). It was RSS and senior BJP neta (all were UCs !!), along with some Gandhivadies (who were also all UC !!).

Questioner-If they are involved in forced conversions what motivated them to oppose the anti fraudulent conversion bill in rajasthan, madhya pradesh and tamil nadu?
Btw do u support anti fraudulent conversion bill?

There are already existing laws in IPC which ban use of force or lies for ANY purpose, forget conversion. If force and lies are reason, we do NOT need any law to begin with.

The UC elitemen want the above bill to ban use of money and English education as means to convert. They know that once missionaries are stopped from offering English education for conversion, missionaries will stop teaching English. This is what these UC elitemen want --- they dont want commons to learn English.


And , why do you oppose use of cash and English education for conversion?
Hindu elitemen's desire to keep us commons weak in every way (not teaching us weapon us, not teaching English, not teaching us law etc) will incur huge cost to India.
Hindus donate HUUUUGE monies to temples. Now temple owners are hostile to use that money for improving us commons' level by teaching us weapon use, English, law etc. Thats another matter. But Hindus in general are very generous when it comes to donations.
. Almost all neta are now MNC , Vatican agent. This includes your beloved BJP neta. Just recently, VHP activists in Dang in Gujarat asked LKA to write letter to HomeMin and Foreign Affairs Ministry in center to expel a list of missionaries whose visa had expired and were doing conversion activities which go against visa conditions. LKA refused !!

LKA wants MNCs to ask ToI to support him or oppose him as less as possible. So LKA has become MNC agent and also a de-facto agent of Christianists as Christianists and MNCs have a tie up.
Questioner-As per this report there is a rise of Hindu population by 2.52%, and that of Christian population by.008% between the years 1991 to 1998.

Please do google on term crypto-christian.
The upper caste ruled congress was compelled to offer reservation …. The reservation for lower caste for safety of upper caste.Look at Naxal ridden area ,probably you will find the answer.

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Re: FAQs on Miscellaneous Topics

Post by kmoksha » Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:52 pm

6)Democracy runs better in small size countries and states.

Many confuse small size with democracy. A common argument given is that "See, vibrant democracy was possible in Athens because it was small in size". Well, it was because of democracy that such a small sized Athens became so strong that it could rule over a large area and left an impact that we remember even today. Athens had only 60000 adult males. To that, add 60000 females and some 120,000 children. So free population was 240,000. Such tiny population had over 300,000 slaves in Athens and had dominated territories around Athens which would be 10-20 times its population and size. Essentially, the democracy they followed made them so strong that they could enslave so many people and dominate so many others. So instead of saying that "democracy is possible only in small region/population", a more accurate statement would be "democracy makes small population so powerful that it can dominate over much larger groups".

As population/size increases , one only needs to change the procedure code so that larger population can participate. Thats about it. Otherwise size and democracy had nothing in common or nothing against.


In a "well designed" administrative system, the inefficiency is any will not be proportional to N, but will be proportional to log(N). And the increase in size is often accompanied with vast improvement in technology by which citizens can supervise the officers, provided laws to supervise those officers exist. The problem today is absence of these laws, not size.
It is exactly the point about the technological level for the given society which may be responsible for the inability to ensure "proper" representation. The larger the size, more difficult the actual physical and direct participation in decision making, and hence the greater need for representations and procedures - each of which introduce more and more opportunities to corrupt the process.

Yes, greater the need for procedures, but not representation. eg The technology today enables people to take 100-200 decisions directly every year. But how many decisions do we take directly as of today? Only 3 in 5 years (electing Corporator, electing MLA and electing MP). So the lack of direct control is more due to absence of procedures, not size.
This of necessity brings in opportunities for corruption, and as long as opportunities are there, those who benefit from such corruption will always utilize them.

Not if citizens have procedures to punish the decision makers. eg Today we in India have no procedure to imprison a Supreme Court judge, Minister or even am IAS, IPS. And thats the reason why they openly collect bribe. Once procedures to imprison them, confiscate their ill gotten wealth etc come in the hands of commons, these people will learn to behave. Once again, the reason is lack of procedure, not size.

7)Why do educated and concerned citizens fail to create a better alternatives? Why are we stuck with ABV, Pramod, Yechuri, Aruns, Narendrabhai, Karat, MMS, Rajmata, PC etc?

The educated ones fail to create better alternatives in Kerala,UP as well as rest of India as

1)Many concerned citizens believe in moral value and national character nonsense. The nonsense they believe is "improve the moral values and nation will improve". So they focus on moral education and character building nonsense. So they dont take interest in administration, courts etc where problems exists. So their participation in politics is zero, or confined to merely replacing one neta by another. They cant think beyond personality worshipping be Modi or Basu or Buddha or ABV or LKA or RagivG etc. So they do not spend time in thinking on what changes in administration, courts etc they should lobby for. So neta change, administration, courts etc remains same, and mess goes on.

2)Our textbook writing college professors, in order to please their elitemen sponsors, have filled textbooks with anti-common garbage. Only rants I read is "common Indians are castist; common Indians are communal; common Indian are emotional, crooks etc etc". And they hide the fact that ALL these vices are present in Indian Nbjprie(Neta-babu-judge-police-regulator-intellectual-elite) as well, plus Nbjprie have 2 more vices not in commons : nepotism and nexuses with criminals and other Nbjprie. So students in India, including concerned citizens, have become anti-democracy. So they advocate pro-oligarchy solutions only and oppose democratic solutions like right to replace/punish the corrupt, preferential voting, increasing election deposits,simplifying electoral form filling, etc. which will promote better candidates for the voters.

8)Things have certainly become better in India, but also the same way in the West. The US has had democracy, elections, trial by jury for 200+ years, but women got the vote only about 10-15 years before they did so in India. (BTW, the British absolutely did not introduce universal suffrage to India).

And why did democracy came so late in India? Why didnt democracy which came in UK in 1300 (taking Jury System was start of democracy in UK) didnt come in India is 1300AD? or even 1700 AD?

Situation of women in US/UK was better than in India even before women got right to vote. For that matter Swiss gave right to vote to women much after India did. Nevetheless women's situation was far better.

British introduced election-procedure in 1934 and it was WITHOUT universal suffarge. One reason was that it was FIRST attempt and another was that a large section of India elite, including educated ones like lawyers, and many Congress members were also opposed to universal suffrage. As for Indian elites, most Indian princeley states did NOT introduce election-procedure even after invaders=Brits did. In 1936, people in Rajkot which was ruled by INDIAN King and NOT directly by Brits, held a demonstration with demand of conducting election. How did the king respond? He were violently crushed them. So lets give credit to Brits for at least introdusing elections rather than cursing them for not giving UnivSuff.

Also, US's founding fathers and founding elite NEVER decreased democraticness from what Brits had left. Whereas India's founding fathers/elite DECREASED democraticness from where Brits had left by abolishing Jury System. I hope the fact Indian neta/babu/jufges/intellectuals/elite etc abolished Jury System in India late 1950s and in early 1970s will FULLY convince everyone and anyone that India's Nbjprie(neta-babu-judge-buddhijivi-intellectuals-elite) are OPPOSED to democratic-form of government. No further proof is required.

9)Basic education (12th) should be a requirement to be elected to legislature. AND, a 3 month basic law course (in the local language or english) should be attended and _passed_ by the lawmakers who have no legal experience.

Over 75% (guess) MPs are graduate. Many are LLBs. And even an illterate person in India (or anywhere in world) knows basic laws like IPC etc. Educated MPs are as corrupt as illterate. So education etc will NOT improve their law-making abilities.

Also, MPs' job is to

1)present draft to Speaker
2)say YES/NO when Speaker schedules voting on that draft

MP is supposed to do (1) and (2) as per the wish/will of citizens. It is citizens' job to prepare the draft and submit it to MP. As long as citizens have NOT given any draft, MPs is not even required to move a muscle.

10)"The system is fine, its the people that is the problem."

WRONG. The Nbjprie are corrupt only because they know that we commons cannot imprison/fine them no matter how much they rob us commons. So we need to solve the problem at both levels - people and system. We need to expel some bad eggs as well as enact laws (like recall, Jury etc) that will increase corrupt people landing in the prison.

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Re: FAQs on Miscellaneous Topics

Post by kmoksha » Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:18 am

11)yes the promotion and selection process in the military are very systematic and centralised .The resaon being every one knows that he/she is being watched by their superiors and are well aware of the fact there is no second chance in case caught of any malpractice.

The military is less corrupt as lower and mid ranking officers dont interact with public nor they have any power over civilians nor are their budgets too high.

12)Fight against corruption has to start from below


Fight against corruption MUST start from top. This litany that focus on bottom only is only to create a heaven for people on top. "Focus on corruption at bottom" means fight against Talati. Tahsildaar etc and let IAS, IPS, Ministers, Supreme Court judges, HCjs etc mint as much as they want peacefully.

IMO, we should attack the top first. Clean all the Supreme Courts benches first and Central Ministers. Next, clean High Court benches and State Ministers. When that happens, 99% of the corruption at bottom will disappear. And then we take care of the next 1%. But if Supreme Court judges and Central Ministers are all corrupt, then corruption at bottom will never end no matter how much we fight.

The bottom survives because of the top. Its the knowledge that the babu is corrupt which makes it easier for the peon to ask for bribe

And forget knowledge, sometimes the top asks bottom to collect money and pass it up. And to indulges into reckless nepotism while recruiting bottom and middle which gives everyone a reason to be corrupt.

Eg why should a lower court judge give up his temptations when he knows that SC-Cj Khare bailed out a convicted wealthy Swiss pedophile? And why should PSI not collect bribes when HomeMin is giving target to each PI , and threatening a transfer is target is not met !!

All this hoopla that we must fight at bottom only and spare the top only ensures that IAS, judges and Ministers and top can collect bribes and also sleep peacefully while we all are busy fighting against Talaties and Tahsildaars.

Questioner-You have always suggested "systemic solutions" for corruption. Nothing wrong with that - but systemic soclutions with procedures like jurysys etc represent a "top-down" approach which is only one of the two methods that should be used.

My approach is 100% bottom up and I have no faith in pure top-down approach. My approach is to FIRST force PM to sign `Transparent Complaint/Proposal procedure` Executive Notification which would enable citizens to register YES/NO on proposals for Rs 3 fee at Talati's office. And ALL laws I have proposed including JurySys will go via `Transparent Complaint/Proposal procedure` channel. So nothing is top down. Later, the bottom will have procedures to expel PM, CMs, SCjs etc and so the "top will be down" literally.

13) What kind of values we need to reduce corruption?

Consider some valuable question

1. Who owns the Natural Resources and GoI plots? Who should get the rents from them

2. Are commons Supreme or SCjs?

3. Should citizens be allowed to expel SC-Cj?

And many more, IOW, values and political system are one and the same. There is total mess in India, because commons do not have democratic values such as citizens own GoI plots, citizens are supreme and Citizens should have procedures to expel SC-Cj. Whereas Nbjprie(Neta-babu-judge-police-regulator-intellectual-elite) have oligarchic values such which says that SCjs are supreme and citizens are subject, citizens should get zero rent from GoI plots and so forth.

14) These proposed procedures are revolutionary and impractical.

None of the proposals are revolutionary and each one is a TINY small change in existing administration. eg Consider the first proposal-`Transparent Complaint/Proposal procedure`- (http://www.righttorecall.info/001.pdf)
The first proposal says -- put letters of us commons on PM's website and put us commons' YES/NO on PM's website. i.e. We commons get freedom to write on PM's website. Does this sound like a revolution to you? Of course, people who oppose my small evolutionary changes often WRONGLY label then as revolutionary to create a negative opinion by throwing bad labels on it.
And if one wants a proper discussion, one should avoid ambiguous words particularly words like "practical", "impractical" etc. The word "impractical" has at following different and unrelated meaning --
1. logistically infeasible
2. Nbjprie(Neta-babu-judge-police-regulator-intellectual-elite) will vehemently disagree and so I am scared of supporting it
3. my friends and relatives will not like if I support this law
4. commons will not understand what the proposed law is
and many more meanings.

eg my CA and lawyer friends say that "idea of not bribing Income Tax babu or judges is impractical". They mean (2) . The same CAs and lawyers also say that "opposing interviews in judicial recruitments is impractical". Again, they mean (2) -- they are scared of consequences they will have to face if they demand abolition of interviews in judiciary. And when one says "lets move to Mars to escape from corrupt neta-babu-judges", I say it is an impractical idea and I mean (1).

So when you use the word "impractical", how do I know what you mean? Suffices to say, that such words with 5-10 meanings should be avoided.
*pls do mentioned judges and intellectuals along with neta-babu. It is necessary we kill the myth that judges and intellectuals are non-corrupt, and so it is necessary that we take their names every time names of neta-babu is taken.

The first EN is small, tiny evolution. So simple and tiny that many such as yourself cant even notice the potential. But any seasoned politician, intellectual can see the tide it will unleash and how much damage it will cause to corrupt neta, IAS, IPS, judges. Which is why they have hated this first EN.

15)There are unscrupulous fellows who sell land to multiple people and disappear. What is the solution?

This is due to lack of Torrens System in India. The problem was there all over world, and was first solved by Robert Torrens in Australia in 1860 by designing a record keeping system which was later called as Torrens System, and solved the problem of frauds in land deals.


The Indian neta-IAS-judges are hostile to Torrens system as the system requires registration of every "pre-sale" deed known as banakhat and sale deed. You know, neta-IAS-IPS-judges have miles and miles of land under their name, and a registration all this deed would make their wealth holding public

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